accuratecnc
Has anyone tried the accuratecnc.com stuff? Specs look great to me.
I'm not really interested in investing the time to build my own.
I thought somebody here might have had experience with these machines since they're pretty popular with RF/microwave folks.
Thanks.
Lance
Here is another good one:
w*w.lpkfusa.com
T-Tech is just fine too.
I've used t-tech (old one) and lpkf (new one).
LPKF is much better than t-tech. LPKF is a german company that makes also laser based machine and, as far as I know, t-tech guys where in lpkf before making their own company.
Mazz
I've used lpkf and didn't have too many issues with it. As long as you understand the setup required to do the processing, it works great..
Hey Lance,
We just bought a LPKF to replace our T-tech. It's still in the box so it may be a while until I try it. What I can say is that 80% of (these machines) ease of use is in the software.
It looks like the accuratecnc product is using DeskCNC ( http://accuratecnc.com/Pictures/Larg...ucts%20030.jpg )This is the same software/harwdare combo that I used to re-build my router at home (I believe I sent you those pictures a while back).
The biggest beef with I have with deskcnc is that there is no rub-out function, just trace isolation. The author is very adament that rub-out is not needed, despite many requests from DeckCNC users, and T-tech and LPKF both have it. On the plus side it uses G-code unlike some proprietary language like the others.
I would suggest downloading the demo here and playing around with it:
http://www.imsrv.com/deskcnc/
Another thing that irks me is that they closed the DeskCNC forum. It's still readable but who knows for how long:
http://www.imsrv.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
It's still a good piece of software and the only choice I have found if yoiu want to roll your own system. I believe nothing else is available that imports gerbers.
I noticed on the accuratecnc specs that spindle runout is not listed. I have a Ryobi (Home Depot) router and it is not good for PCB work. It has about +/-4 mils of run-out. It uses 1/4" tooling so I had to buy a collet to get it down to 1/8". I suppose run-out can be compensated for in software just like cutter comp (tool wear) but I have not tried it. That would also not help with small holes. I'm not sure if DeskCNC has cutter compensation. I'd ask for a milled sample from accuratecnc and measure it under a microscope to check the trace widths.
Just as a follow up...
I ended up buying a machine from accurateCNC. the machine is really solid. I've only milled one test board so far.... but there's little to complain about with the machine.
i particularly like the milling depth limiter mechanism... seems like a big improvement over the t-tech machine I used many years ago.
Now I'm trying (with help from some kind folks) to work through some problems with gerbers and how the software (DeskCNC) that runs the machine sees them.... Once I can get this part solved I'll be in better shape...
Lance
I use a Roland mill which limits my board size to 6X4 but it is good enough for most prototypes. The biggest problem I found with my mill is to get the pcb completely flat and setting the Z0 position before milling. At a S1000 I paid, I can't complain as it includes a 3D scanner to copy other 3D models for milling duplicates.
Lance, what did you pay for your mill new?
Roland,
The machine was a little over S6k -- introductory price.
The depth limiting for PCB work is done with a depth limiter relative to a ring that contacts the board. The machine applies a few pounds of pressure to the ring, which holds the board flat (if it bows up at all). This is similar to how the t-tech machine did it (with a single foot) but superior -- since it is more force and a ring around the tool rather than one single foot with less pressure.
I really struggled with an investment of this size, but I thought a new machine with specs like this was a safer move than a used machine at similar/more money from a bigger company.
I expect that this company will be very successful as the name and reputation is established -- at least it will put a fair amount of pressure on t-tech and LPKF (not that I have anything against them, I just couldn't afford their machines!).
(only thing I recall being an issue with the t-tech that I used was the foot/height mechanism -- problems like you suggest)
Lance
if you have spare Z travel - you can make homemade vacuum table. This easely can be done with with 2 plexiglass sheets where the one (on mount on top) is drilled with multiple holes and another (mounted to bottom) provide provides path for vacuum . Attach vacuum cleaner to side hole and get pcb pressed to botton .
I see this construction on internet but don't remember the address .
Last time I looked the Roland mill like mine was about S2500 new. I snatched one off ebay from an Engineering school who upgraded. The S1000 I paid included lots of bits and a PC + monitor in the package. Not a bad deal.
I meant the vacuum table as attachment to your Roland CNC to position pcb flat to the cutting tool.
Of course 1K usd is the price i would pay immediately for a such machine if it will be available. I don't like to pay for PCB workshop every time i need to make test pcb .
Artem, the vacuum table is something to look at. Thanks for the suggestion.
You are welcome .
And for Z position don't you use ring on milling bits ?
If you have home switch on Roland - that should solve you problem . If not and if it is possible to implement it - there are 1 micron repeatability switches you can mount to get proper vertical alignment.
E-design,
How are you generating the toolpaths for your Roland machine?
http://www.techsoftuk.co.uk/pcbdesign.htm
For small boards with no holes I just import a bitmap image of the layout.
I have an Accurate 360 machine and I am very happy with the results.
The software & USB CNC controller are PhCNC (http://www.accuratecnc.com/software.html) - not DeskCNC !
Just a warning to anyone doing this stuff at home, especially with the low cost desktop cnc routers. The fiberglass dust produced is pretty toxic stuff. You do not want to breath it. You need to have a REAL hepa vaccum cleaner running to scoop up all the dust or you will have a contaminated lab in no time.
I recently upgraded to an accurate360 as well -- mainly to get video. I got the professional vacuum system as well. I think AccurateCNC is poised to make some real gains in this market over the competition.
Most of my prototyping is done on 9-10mil thick dielectrics, which I wouldn't have really thought usable on a prototyping machine until I tried it.
While I agree that the dust is bad I suggest you do your own research before going too crazy about it. A few of us researched the toxicity of FR4 dust (among other byproducts) and came away not so worried at all. On my accurate350 machine I used a standard consumer vacuum and fine paper filters.
biff44 -- can you cite any references? Even though I have a full vacuum system now I would be interested in reading about the hazards.
We had to justify this for some clowns that we worked for (err... I mean with) who were in the facilities department and intent about keeping us from getting the machine (in the end they won -- one *small* reason why I don't work there anymore).
Lance
Added after 3 minutes:
I have an Accurate 360 machine and I am very happy with the results.
The software & USB CNC controller are PhCNC (http://www.accuratecnc.com/software.html) - not DeskCNC !